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	<title>Comments on: How I&#8217;d Negotiate With Clients Wanting oDesk &#8220;Features&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://www.aboutfreelancewriting.com/2010/03/how-id-negotiate-with-clients-wanting-odesk-features/</link>
	<description>Helping freelance writers make more money with their writing by Anne Wayman</description>
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		<title>By: guest</title>
		<link>http://www.aboutfreelancewriting.com/2010/03/how-id-negotiate-with-clients-wanting-odesk-features/comment-page-1/#comment-14413</link>
		<dc:creator>guest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 20:35:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aboutfreelancewriting.com/?p=6666#comment-14413</guid>
		<description>hi anne.
thank you a lot for contributing. but we were not talking about the human beings who these junk posters want to ‘write’ their web junk. no one of us here is that blue-eyed to muse about their hiring ethics. who the poor person will be – the desperate person at another continent with these obvious lacks in even the most important part of writing – mastery of language – not mentioning research skills and ressources – who this person will be is of absolute no interest for these brokers. they don’t care and no one here is surprised about this.

but: we were talking about the absolute lack of logics inside their own system: the fact that these are human beings who consitute their own target group, therefore making their own penny ‘deals’ senseless from the very first start of it. (like e.g. the creation of a blog design in order to get it filled in order to get the blog sold at the end. or the opening of an article seller account on an article directory page in order to deal with the junk there.)
the ‘web products’ do all have a target readers group. articles don’t target analphabets. and since pages wit quality content for any reading person is just one click away, any person aimed at a reading end customer has to be aware that it’s competing. trying to deal with stuff which will be simply ignored by any reading person is not only senseless but without any potential value from the very first step of the whole deal and from the very first letter on. and this – actually – is a fact which the brokers can try not to see or not to realise. but trying not to realise a crucial strategical structure function in their own system is somehow… – missing the center point of their own business. and you have to admit that this in fact is something one can just be surprised about.

there is a post at the mentioned and linked oDesk forum coffee break page hinting at it:

“but these penny brokers simply forget that the final users are human beings. that they are online. that a user can make a simple click to get to a more interesting page: the times… the guardian… the gutenberg project… the taz (an interesting newspaper, good for readers with german language skills), regardless where they – the aim group – are. knowledge and interesting content they compete with is a click away for every potential client on earth. the potential client is per se a critical one. it’s a reading human being having access to knowledge and quality just a single click away. the penny brokers, however, behave as if their aim group would be a tribe of native americans (from the western perspective in the, let’s say, 15th century) who never saw a quality text online and therefore for sure will buy their glass marbles. they forget about the aim group by ordering these filling ‘products for web placement’. instead of searching for the text quality they would need in order to reach their own aims, they hunt for b…sh..t and wonder afterwards why in spite of all their 1000-for-1$, 2000-for-1$, 3000-for-1$-”deals” this all doesn’t work out.”

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.odesk.com/community/node/11811&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;it was this thread here&lt;/a&gt;

(this a reply to: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.fourteenerwriter.com/2010/07/06/odesk-this-writers-experience-and-review/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a post in the fourteenerwriter blog&lt;/a&gt; - the reply copied into this comment field here, too - in order to make a follow up of the dicussion easier without clicking around all the time)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi anne.<br />
thank you a lot for contributing. but we were not talking about the human beings who these junk posters want to ‘write’ their web junk. no one of us here is that blue-eyed to muse about their hiring ethics. who the poor person will be – the desperate person at another continent with these obvious lacks in even the most important part of writing – mastery of language – not mentioning research skills and ressources – who this person will be is of absolute no interest for these brokers. they don’t care and no one here is surprised about this.</p>
<p>but: we were talking about the absolute lack of logics inside their own system: the fact that these are human beings who consitute their own target group, therefore making their own penny ‘deals’ senseless from the very first start of it. (like e.g. the creation of a blog design in order to get it filled in order to get the blog sold at the end. or the opening of an article seller account on an article directory page in order to deal with the junk there.)<br />
the ‘web products’ do all have a target readers group. articles don’t target analphabets. and since pages wit quality content for any reading person is just one click away, any person aimed at a reading end customer has to be aware that it’s competing. trying to deal with stuff which will be simply ignored by any reading person is not only senseless but without any potential value from the very first step of the whole deal and from the very first letter on. and this – actually – is a fact which the brokers can try not to see or not to realise. but trying not to realise a crucial strategical structure function in their own system is somehow… – missing the center point of their own business. and you have to admit that this in fact is something one can just be surprised about.</p>
<p>there is a post at the mentioned and linked oDesk forum coffee break page hinting at it:</p>
<p>“but these penny brokers simply forget that the final users are human beings. that they are online. that a user can make a simple click to get to a more interesting page: the times… the guardian… the gutenberg project… the taz (an interesting newspaper, good for readers with german language skills), regardless where they – the aim group – are. knowledge and interesting content they compete with is a click away for every potential client on earth. the potential client is per se a critical one. it’s a reading human being having access to knowledge and quality just a single click away. the penny brokers, however, behave as if their aim group would be a tribe of native americans (from the western perspective in the, let’s say, 15th century) who never saw a quality text online and therefore for sure will buy their glass marbles. they forget about the aim group by ordering these filling ‘products for web placement’. instead of searching for the text quality they would need in order to reach their own aims, they hunt for b…sh..t and wonder afterwards why in spite of all their 1000-for-1$, 2000-for-1$, 3000-for-1$-”deals” this all doesn’t work out.”</p>
<p><a href="http://www.odesk.com/community/node/11811">it was this thread here</a></p>
<p>(this a reply to: <a href="http://www.fourteenerwriter.com/2010/07/06/odesk-this-writers-experience-and-review/">a post in the fourteenerwriter blog</a> &#8211; the reply copied into this comment field here, too &#8211; in order to make a follow up of the dicussion easier without clicking around all the time)</p>
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		<title>By: Anne</title>
		<link>http://www.aboutfreelancewriting.com/2010/03/how-id-negotiate-with-clients-wanting-odesk-features/comment-page-1/#comment-14405</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 17:46:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aboutfreelancewriting.com/?p=6666#comment-14405</guid>
		<description>Well, many don&#039;t agree with your view - check out http://www.aboutfreelancewriting.com/2010/03/how-id-negotiate-with-clients-wanting-odesk-features/

Looks from your article you&#039;ve also given it up... </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, many don&#8217;t agree with your view &#8211; check out <a href="http://www.aboutfreelancewriting.com/2010/03/how-id-negotiate-with-clients-wanting-odesk-features/">http://www.aboutfreelancewriting.com/2010/03/how-id-negotiate-with-clients-wanting-odesk-features/</a></p>
<p>Looks from your article you&#8217;ve also given it up&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: guest</title>
		<link>http://www.aboutfreelancewriting.com/2010/03/how-id-negotiate-with-clients-wanting-odesk-features/comment-page-1/#comment-14401</link>
		<dc:creator>guest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jul 2010 16:55:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aboutfreelancewriting.com/?p=6666#comment-14401</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.fourteenerwriter.com/2010/07/06/odesk-this-writers-experience-and-review/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;click&lt;/a&gt; - just a short invitation to a neighbourhood blog post with a newly started discussion thread. still about oDesk, this time more about &quot;1000 words for 1$&quot; - deals. what&#039;s a bread and what&#039;s a tomatoe in freelance writing, how to differentiate between an &#039;article&#039; and a &#039;bunch of words&#039;  and what&#039;s the exact difference between them. feel free to click over.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.fourteenerwriter.com/2010/07/06/odesk-this-writers-experience-and-review/">click</a> &#8211; just a short invitation to a neighbourhood blog post with a newly started discussion thread. still about oDesk, this time more about &#8220;1000 words for 1$&#8221; &#8211; deals. what&#8217;s a bread and what&#8217;s a tomatoe in freelance writing, how to differentiate between an &#8216;article&#8217; and a &#8216;bunch of words&#8217;  and what&#8217;s the exact difference between them. feel free to click over.</p>
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		<title>By: Roy Daniel DSilva</title>
		<link>http://www.aboutfreelancewriting.com/2010/03/how-id-negotiate-with-clients-wanting-odesk-features/comment-page-1/#comment-11778</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy Daniel DSilva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 18:13:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aboutfreelancewriting.com/?p=6666#comment-11778</guid>
		<description>I agree that writers have no business showing their work time and writing clients have no business asking for it. I just think it&#039;s a different matter for the coders, or even Data Entry Workers, who work per hour. I guess we have moved away from those kind of jobs now, but there is still a market for them and there are still people who do it.
.-= Roy Daniel DSilva´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://thefreelanceresource.com/2010/03/22/work-at-home-tips-a-paid-subscription-to-a-job-site-hold-that-thought/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Work at Home Tips: A Paid Subscription to a Job Site? Hold that Thought!&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that writers have no business showing their work time and writing clients have no business asking for it. I just think it&#8217;s a different matter for the coders, or even Data Entry Workers, who work per hour. I guess we have moved away from those kind of jobs now, but there is still a market for them and there are still people who do it.<br />
.-= Roy Daniel DSilva´s last blog ..<a href="http://thefreelanceresource.com/2010/03/22/work-at-home-tips-a-paid-subscription-to-a-job-site-hold-that-thought/">Work at Home Tips: A Paid Subscription to a Job Site? Hold that Thought!</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Anne</title>
		<link>http://www.aboutfreelancewriting.com/2010/03/how-id-negotiate-with-clients-wanting-odesk-features/comment-page-1/#comment-11774</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 18:10:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aboutfreelancewriting.com/?p=6666#comment-11774</guid>
		<description>Roy, there are other virtual meeting sites/ways to go. And yes, if you&#039;re having trouble turning off the spy feature in oDesk others will find it impossible. I guess, other than my instinctive don&#039;t spy on me attitude I also hate the mistrust I suspect they breed - but maybe not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roy, there are other virtual meeting sites/ways to go. And yes, if you&#8217;re having trouble turning off the spy feature in oDesk others will find it impossible. I guess, other than my instinctive don&#8217;t spy on me attitude I also hate the mistrust I suspect they breed &#8211; but maybe not.</p>
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		<title>By: Roy Daniel DSilva</title>
		<link>http://www.aboutfreelancewriting.com/2010/03/how-id-negotiate-with-clients-wanting-odesk-features/comment-page-1/#comment-11769</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy Daniel DSilva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 17:35:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aboutfreelancewriting.com/?p=6666#comment-11769</guid>
		<description>Wo Wo Wo.. quite a few comments in here. Here&#039;s my two bits. 

I have worked with Freelancer, Scriptlance and now oDesk and I did find their &#039;Eye in the Sky&#039; bit a bit weird in the beginning. I am like every other computer user who doesn&#039;t like to share what they&#039;re doing on their PC. That&#039;s the reason behind the term &#039;Personal Computer&#039;, anyway, I digress. 

I can understand when clients use the nifty lil oDesk thingy with &lt;em&gt;coders&lt;/em&gt; because there are many module makers (not framework builders) who are paid by the hour anyway.  As writers, we may or may not have an idea as to how much time we&#039;d take to write an article, or a press release, because there are several other aspects other than that, and therefore we have the &lt;em&gt;deadline&lt;/em&gt;

And yes, though it is simple to turn off the oDesk thingy taking screenshots (come on, who doesn&#039;t like to poke friends while a drab article), I found it had it very difficult to &lt;em&gt;turn off&lt;/em&gt; the screenshot feature. I have been using the Internets and the Computers since eighteen and run my own site. If I have such problems, what about the average writer?

Then again, the virtual meeting stuff on oDesk is great, and works wonders when you have a team of workers. I once worked on a website project where I had to interact with a guy over in the US.  I didn&#039;t work on oDesk at that time, but I can understand how it&#039;d help me today - a lot.
.-= Roy Daniel DSilva´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://thefreelanceresource.com/2010/03/22/work-at-home-tips-a-paid-subscription-to-a-job-site-hold-that-thought/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Work at Home Tips: A Paid Subscription to a Job Site? Hold that Thought!&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wo Wo Wo.. quite a few comments in here. Here&#8217;s my two bits. </p>
<p>I have worked with Freelancer, Scriptlance and now oDesk and I did find their &#8216;Eye in the Sky&#8217; bit a bit weird in the beginning. I am like every other computer user who doesn&#8217;t like to share what they&#8217;re doing on their PC. That&#8217;s the reason behind the term &#8216;Personal Computer&#8217;, anyway, I digress. </p>
<p>I can understand when clients use the nifty lil oDesk thingy with <em>coders</em> because there are many module makers (not framework builders) who are paid by the hour anyway.  As writers, we may or may not have an idea as to how much time we&#8217;d take to write an article, or a press release, because there are several other aspects other than that, and therefore we have the <em>deadline</em></p>
<p>And yes, though it is simple to turn off the oDesk thingy taking screenshots (come on, who doesn&#8217;t like to poke friends while a drab article), I found it had it very difficult to <em>turn off</em> the screenshot feature. I have been using the Internets and the Computers since eighteen and run my own site. If I have such problems, what about the average writer?</p>
<p>Then again, the virtual meeting stuff on oDesk is great, and works wonders when you have a team of workers. I once worked on a website project where I had to interact with a guy over in the US.  I didn&#8217;t work on oDesk at that time, but I can understand how it&#8217;d help me today &#8211; a lot.<br />
.-= Roy Daniel DSilva´s last blog ..<a href="http://thefreelanceresource.com/2010/03/22/work-at-home-tips-a-paid-subscription-to-a-job-site-hold-that-thought/">Work at Home Tips: A Paid Subscription to a Job Site? Hold that Thought!</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Anne</title>
		<link>http://www.aboutfreelancewriting.com/2010/03/how-id-negotiate-with-clients-wanting-odesk-features/comment-page-1/#comment-11697</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 12:56:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aboutfreelancewriting.com/?p=6666#comment-11697</guid>
		<description>Exactly, Clint. And when I&#039;ve worked with or around coders that too isn&#039;t exactly linear... hence the ping pong tables in the dot coms and a google.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly, Clint. And when I&#8217;ve worked with or around coders that too isn&#8217;t exactly linear&#8230; hence the ping pong tables in the dot coms and a google.</p>
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		<title>By: Clint</title>
		<link>http://www.aboutfreelancewriting.com/2010/03/how-id-negotiate-with-clients-wanting-odesk-features/comment-page-1/#comment-11677</link>
		<dc:creator>Clint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 18:48:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aboutfreelancewriting.com/?p=6666#comment-11677</guid>
		<description>I saw a lot more logic with oDesk working for clients who hire coders or some sort of workflow that&#039;s linear. With writing, I often brainstorm ideas on a walk to get coffee or in the shower. Not to spark an angry debate or anything, but how do you oDeskers plan on billing for that time? Not everything happens on the computer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw a lot more logic with oDesk working for clients who hire coders or some sort of workflow that&#8217;s linear. With writing, I often brainstorm ideas on a walk to get coffee or in the shower. Not to spark an angry debate or anything, but how do you oDeskers plan on billing for that time? Not everything happens on the computer.</p>
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		<title>By: Anne</title>
		<link>http://www.aboutfreelancewriting.com/2010/03/how-id-negotiate-with-clients-wanting-odesk-features/comment-page-1/#comment-11668</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 13:36:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aboutfreelancewriting.com/?p=6666#comment-11668</guid>
		<description>Hourly makes me crazy for exactly that reason... you get penalized for being good or learning to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hourly makes me crazy for exactly that reason&#8230; you get penalized for being good or learning to be.</p>
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		<title>By: Anne</title>
		<link>http://www.aboutfreelancewriting.com/2010/03/how-id-negotiate-with-clients-wanting-odesk-features/comment-page-1/#comment-11665</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 13:26:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aboutfreelancewriting.com/?p=6666#comment-11665</guid>
		<description>Tamara, I guess we&#039;ll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I&#039;m with Karl who points out there are solutions that you can implement, on your own, without the big brother aspect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tamara, I guess we&#8217;ll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I&#8217;m with Karl who points out there are solutions that you can implement, on your own, without the big brother aspect.</p>
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